New York Women Leaders Association NY Chapter Meeting: The Sponsorship Effect
Patricia Partelow of Ernst & Young discusses the sponsorship effect at the New York Women Leaders Association chapter meeting.
Transcript
Hi everyone, my name is Patricia Partalo. My friends call me Patty. I am a managing director in within the consulting organization Ernstston Young. Uh I focus on financial services. Um and you know throughout my career and I've worked for some really awesome companies. I've worked for PepsiCo. I've worked for American Express, IBM throughout my career. um all the companies that I've worked for have have always had a focus on people development and and especially diversity and inclusion and you know the conver the topic we're going to talk about today is around sponsorship and it was something that really got formalized for me when I was at American Express but um you know I have you know feel free to reach out I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter and uh thank you.
Well, we are excited you're with us today. So, we have your slides pulled up and the floor is all yours. Okay, great. And actually, can we skip to the next slide? Awesome. So, uh, as I said, I wanted to talk to everyone about sponsorship and what I think Harvard Business Review had called the sponsor effect. um at the you know if I go back I'm going to be dating myself to 20 2008 during the economic uh downturn um this was something that we started uh a study with Harvard Business Review um just around um you know the the topic and basically you know we came out of uh I think it was 2010 it was published and so um a little bit of what I want to cover here is why are we talking about this.
What is it? How do I get it? Um and and what is it like when it's working? So, if we can go to the next slide. Great. Thanks. So, um, as I mentioned, you know, I think I think if I look back in my career and I think about all the times where I've really had, you know, some really good growth or I've secured some really good roles, it's because I felt like someone was buying for me at the top. Um, and so, you know, back then I just thought I was lucky and, you know, I kind of earned it, but, you know, I didn't really have a formal uh uh concept for it. But I would say back in that 2008 time frame, and I'll this is maybe a little bit more of a case study for AMX at the time, but you know, we at the time um had inconsistent um in inconsistent gender mix, meaning we had really good representation um from, you know, diverse representation until you got to the very top, right?
So what might be 60 40 women you know like maybe banned 75 below changed 30 70 when you got to EVP and above and that wasn't great right like how do you you know why is it that people were getting stuck um the other thing is with the downturn um there was a lot of organizational changes that we made right ma we made to um flex to the to the market and and some of them frankly I think were you talked about, but that really kind of pushed it. And with those organizational changes, what you saw was senior leaders leaving, right? You know, things changed. It wasn't what they wanted. And I remember, you know, when one particular uh president at the time left, you know, we were in actually a woman's conference and like everybody like they said, 'Oh, this guy laughed.' And you know he went to another issuer and everybody looked at this woman who was his protege, right?
I mean he she was his star that he had been nurturing and and it was like okay now what happens, right? And so I think you know a lot of this you know it tends to um really kind of operate it. So um basically you know really the focus was how do you retain um people because you know some of these senior leaders you know the the talent that was left behind they were derailed there were departures on their own um and how do you really focus um on on the talent and retain them and make sure they're getting the advancement that they deserve. Um so if we can go to the next
slide. So basically, you know, one of the things that I think is a concept that came out of this study that, you know, and I know, you know, Joyce talked a lot about differences between men and women and how we think, right? We're way much more hard on ourselves and and and if you look at career progression, right? the idea as you're growing and think you know leveling up into the organization um you know your results you know your day-to-day results become less important not that it's not important but less important than to the the the the relationships that you're making and and the influence that influencing you're able to do. So, it's not so much your functional expertise, but it's like how do you lead?
How do you influence? And honestly, you have to cultivate those relationships. And it's it it was interesting because, you know, men naturally cultivate them to their advantage where women create more personal relationships. They want to be able to like you. you know, it's but but at the end of the day, I mean, relationships levels are how you get stuff done because it's very easy to sit in your silo uh and manage your P&L, but you really need to work across your peer set. Um, and so, you know, basically, you know, when I think about relationship capital, it's really the practice of seeking out powerful people, cultivating their favor, and cashing in those chips. Um, you know, when needed, and and honestly, that alone kind of demonstrates leadership uh potential as well.
So, so can we uh flip to the next slide? So, so you know, you know what is sponsorship, right? And I'm going to talk a little bit about what it is and then I'm going to kind of compare it to things like advocacy and mentoring. But basically, when I think about sponsorship there, you know, it's really critical relationships that will impact your career. And, you know, these are usually senior people or or senior compared to you at least a couple levels, right? It's not where you go to someone and say, 'Hey, I want you to sponsor me.' No, you need to earn it, right? You need to be able to show um to show your results and um really, you know, earn that as well as um it's different than mentoring and coaching, which I'll explain.
And for me, the thing that I think is really important because I I actually sponsor people within my organization. and I've done it in the last few that I've been in is really you need to nurture it, right? It can't be just a one-way ask all the time. I think there are things that you can do for your sponsor and and typically that's kind of what makes the relationship work is not only are they looking out for you and your best interest, but you're also able to help them. Um and so you know this idea of the sponsor effect is really what impact it has on your career and how important it is you know for growth and for retention and I'll go into a little bit more in the subsequent slides.
Um it really will um it it really will you'll see the difference and you'll you can see the difference when you see when people have sponsors um and and you know for for for many organizations I think having that person that's rooting for you will really help in retention. So if we can go to the next
slide. So you know what I would say is not everyone is a sponsor and you know you're not going to have five. I mean if you do wow I mean you should be lucky to have one because again you have to put a lot of time and effort into be uh into gaining one. So if I think about to think about what sponsorship is le let's start with you know mentoring right and having a mentor a mentor you know I'm sure many of you either have or have had mentors in your career it's you know usually it's time bound right it's for a specific purpose um you can request it they can be assigned right it can be a formal relationship it can be informal and those you know your mentors can be internal or external.
And really, they're there to help provide guidance, right, as you need it. And I know, you know, when I mentor uh people, I let them set the cadence on how often we meet and what we talk about. Um but and and so they usually have a purpose. You know, obviously advocates are um people that, you know, they're they're they're in your corner, right? They've seen the work you've done. Um you've earned it based on your performance. um and they'll they say good things about you, especially when you're not in the room, right? And so it's having that sort of support to say, you know, hey, you know, uh Patty's a great, you know, person. I know she could do this.
We should probably ask her, right? And and they very much um help you to kind of get what you want by having someone else that's that's validating um your worth. But but the last one um is the sponsor and the sponsor for me is the ultimate goal. I it is an alliance as I mentioned earlier. I think you have to really you know put into it you know to get out of it. Um you know sponsors help you to make connections. Um you know they will often challenge you especially when you're kind of thinking about all the reasons why you shouldn't take that role. you know, they're they're in your corner and they're in your corner even when you're not in the room.
And and that's really the idea is that you want your sponsor to be um to be talking for you and about you and and advocating for you when you're not in the room. And you know at one point someone said to me once that um you can mentor someone who's awful without you know risking your reputation where in you know sponsorship you're very much um that sponsor has credibility and they're using their credibility uh uh for on your behalf. So if we can uh go to the next
slide. So and I started to touch on this uh just previously you know a sponsor ideally you want them with inside your company or organization or group depending on you know what the sphere of influence need is. Um you want them to be above because again you want them talking on your behalf. Um you know when I think about it um in some organizations you know there are roles you know at very you know the higher up you go the you know roles don't always get posted right um and I know that's been changing over the years but let's say back to my example with organizational changes you know people might be saying to me oh what do you what role do you want next and I only know the role that exists today right and the structure that's there today but how do you have someone who's looking at where things are going and thinking, 'Wow, you know, you know, Jane would be great for that role.
I know we haven't fully vetted it yet, but you know, I think we should consider her.' Um, you know, I do think they have their own they have a credible voice, right? So, that's what, you know, you're you're relying on them for is their credibility. Um, they can help either make decisions or they can influence decisions, which is important. And like I was saying, they're at the talent table, right? They're talking about you uh from for from your performance or they're talking about you for next roles. Um and and really they're the ones that are helping to pull you pull you along. Um you know, and it's one of those relationships where you continue to look to grow it.
I know it says organically, but that doesn't imply that there's not an effort that goes into it. Um, and you know, basically they're putting their reputation, they're marrying it to your performance. Um, and they they'll take a risk on you. Um, and you know, that's one of the things with sponsors is it's not just that they're saying, 'Oh, Joe, you should hire Jane,' but it's like, 'I'm going to take, you know, a risk on Jane myself within my organization as well.' Um, and you know, they're there to help you. Um, and and I have to say that again, it's really important that you continue to think about ways that you can help them as well. Um, and so, you know, when I when I look back on my career, like I said, I think there have been times where, you know, I've had sponsors that either, you know,
advoc a performance perspective and and, you know, saying yes, you you know, she should have that role to thinking about me uh opportunities or even pushing me a little it because you know I'm the type of person that'll think about the 10 or 20% that of the job responsibilities that I haven't done before. Um and really I I think you know having that person to really push for you and and pull you along um is a great is a great um opportunity. So So if we can go to the next slide please.
So earning sponsorship right like I said earlier I mean you know a lot of us you know are lucky to have one sponsor um you know the other thing I said earlier is you know there's there's change right and I talk about that poor woman who you know her sponsor last right and went to another company and it's always good to have advocates like you're always trying to cultivate more sponsorship but you know Having one I and uh is a great thing and it really kind of begins with um you know really demonstrating and and delivering uh results, right? You know because you you're you know they're going to take a bet on you and you want to be the sure thing uh for them.
Um and so um you really you know need to be visible. Uh you want to show consistency in your results. Um and and really you want to where you have the opportunity is to demonstrate potential not just display performance and and you know really look to exceed expectations and you know with the mentor relationship that I had um I was really fortunate in that this person of course I saw the world of you know his values kind of aligned to mine but he taught me so much in terms of you know years ago like how to manage you know talent to their strengths versus trying to fix people. And and you know, I think there's a lot you can learn from them.
But I never stop to think about the things that I can do um for for him as well. And um you know, I talked about relationship capital uh previously. I think you know, you're always um trying to really you know, build that relationship and and make it two-way. Um, and the other thing that I mentioned earlier is that really that need for sponsorship really does intensify as you move up in the organization. Um, and and really, you know, having someone um uh buying for you uh is key um because you know, you're likely not going to be in the room yourself, right? Um, and often, like I said earlier, you may not even know of those opportunities because they're not, you know, uh, broadly known.
Um, and, um, you know, the the point being, you know, you can't count on one person for forever. Um, that kind of goes back into my thought of, you know, continuing to build advocacy with others. Um, and and you know, when I was talking about paying it back, I don't I don't think it's just with your sponsor, but I also think, you know, and and one of the reasons why I'm here today is I think, you know, as you, you know, move in your careers, it's going to be really important that you also uh pay it back and think about, okay, who who should I be sponsoring? But it's interesting like like make no doubt you know make no mistake the idea of sponsorship isn't that you have to sponsor everybody on your team.
You know it takes a lot of work and it and it really is you know the person maybe they're the high potential that you're aware of um that you really want to nurture and grow. Um, for me, like where I am right now at EY, um, Ernstston Young, um, there's been like a a person or two that, you know, I've gotten to know, I've only been there for three years now. I've gotten to know and I've said, 'Wow, you know, this person's really great.' You know, they could be doing so much more at the firm. like like and so then you know I start you know spending the time and and you know I've kind of you know they've earned it because they've given me some amazing results and that's why I'm like really surprised right like you're you know you're only this level wow you're not doing broader things you know people aren't talking about you um and really you know my my um that's when I kind of step in to say okay let me coach them let me suggest them for internal, you know, visible senior leader type projects.
And really, you know, my idea is to grow them and see them be successful. Am I their manager? No. Um, I'm just someone that, you know, wants to invest in them because I want to see them grow within the firm and not leave and get frustrated because for some reason others haven't, you know, um, haven't recognized that potential. And so um I'll go to the last
slide. So so this is kind of the model that you know I I when I think about sponsorship and and I can't wait to hopefully there's some good questions or even comments. I'm happy to take comments too. Um in terms of you know do people have sponsors? You know do they think you know that they need it? Do they have it? Um, you know, when I think about the sponsor relationship, obviously, you know, your sponsor believes in you. They're there to make, you know, to offer support. Um, they open doors. They'll even, you know, they'll make connections for you, right? like like one of my my sponsor my m like he brought me to a company where you know he I he took me from Pepsi Pepsi to to American Express and they're like two totally different companies as it relates to business models very much similar you know culture um but you know people looked at me like why are you here like you don't know anything about the credit card industry but you know I got in and um there were certain um meetings where, you know, I was in there and I was leveraging his credibility, but then it was up to me to then establish my own, right?
But that's that's what they do for you. Um, you know, I think they've also, you know, if you have the right relationship, they're also able to, um, really have those honest conversations with you, which I know sometimes, you know, are kind of difficult, but when you know that it's coming from a point of, you know, I think the world of view, here's a couple things that you can do even better. Um, that goes really well. Um, and they create opportunity. And then, you know, as I said, you know, sponsored talent, it's all about, you know, the results, you know, paying back and and doing things that you can for your sponsor, uh, making them look good, right?
Especially if they're putting their neck on the line for you. Um, a and really, you know, keeping them in the loop with your career and, you know, where things are going, I think, is important, too, because, you know, they're, you know, you want to make sure that they're up to date with everything going on so that when they're out talking about you, they've got the latest and greatest. And, you know, obviously, you know, getting a a request from your sponsor is something that you, you know, should try hard to um accommodate. Um, and so, you know, like if you look at, you know, there the the relationship itself, you know, you could read it. It's it's weighty.
It's generous. It's definitely a commitment. Um, and and there there is high expectations, I think, really from from both sides. So, so I'm I'm going to pause there and um I don't know um Ginger if there's any questions that you've gotten on the topic. Yes, we've received a lot of questions that have come in on the topic. So, I'm going to start with this one from Lauren. And Lauren says, 'Have you heard that women are over mentored and undersponsored?' And have you found that to be true?
What a great question. Um, you know, and if you notice, I didn't put stats in the deck because like I just I don't have, you know, I don't I didn't have time to validate latest and greatest. But typically, yes, typically women have been under sponsored um and and you know, I think it's easier to ask for a mentor relationship than it is to really go after a sponsor relationship. Um and and I do think though that, you know, you can't just blame um organizations. Um, I think sometimes I think you have to kind of seek out who do I, you know, out of the people that I'm working with, who are who is someone that could likely be a mentor, I mean, sorry, a sponsor for me.
You know, I I'm doing great things for there's a mutual benefit for them helping. sometimes they're just willing to step up and and and make that and make that um sort of relationship happen, you know, without, you know, without you, you know, really kind of coming at it and not necessarily asking, but but um you know, kind of for trying to formalize it on your end. But the other thing that I would say is you know a lot you know post that post the the research that was done and you know AMX wasn't the only company that invested in it and participated in it was um a conscious um a conscious move by companies to try to formalize it and to kind of really say you know here are these especially high potential women and others, right?
Here are these high potential leaders that, you know, who is their sponsor? Who's kind of bringing them along? Um, and they're, you know, it was for for AMX is called Women at the Women in the Pipeline, Women at the Top. And so, you know, it was very clear who their sponsors were, uh, because it was semiformmal.
Wonderful. Thank you so much for that. So, our next question comes from Amber. And Amber asks, 'Are there any personality issues that someone should look for to make sure that you're meshing with a mentor?' With with a mentor. Yes. Yep. Okay. Um, you know, I actually think that's a great question because to me, I I think a mentor, you know, getting a mentor and you can have multiples, right? You know, and some people do, right? You might have a mentor around functional like help that you need you know around your functional expertise and then you might have a mentor around leadership right um I think it's really for me and maybe because I'm a woman right stereotypical I think it's important that we have similar values right I don't know personalitywise sometimes I feel like I can learn from other personalities but I feel like what's most important to me is the values that you have but but honestly I I kind of start with the company right does the company have the right values and then you know does you know does my mentor have have the right values and and um so so yeah I think you know if I kind of extrapolate I think yeah personality um is important and it's funny because at um EY we have a couple of different formal mentor programs that I'm part of and they do a a match up front based on um like sort of like your application of what you're looking for and like your philosophy on things, but I mean they don't always, you know, they're not always a perfect match.
And you know, you should never have to force it. Um, so I I do think if you know if you've got a mentor that maybe isn't you know the the you know the right person um if you're not comfortable right because maybe per personalitywise it might be more cultural or it might just be you're not as comfortable then I mean you're you're you're totally fine to to to find another one. That's great. Well, this is going to be our last question of the afternoon and then we're going to ask you for some final thoughts. And this question comes from Paulina. And Paulina asks, 'For those of us who are entrepreneurs, do you have any specific recommendations for finding a mentor?' So, so actually um especially for entrepreneurs um and I don't know how much you you know how active you are in LinkedIn or different you know conference forums or or you know associations but I really and and maybe I've got too much of a financial services lens I apologize but um you know typically there are people that have, you know, come through the ranks either come through the ranks in a corporate environment that might apply to to the business in or the topic that you're an entrepreneur or sometimes it it'll just be, you know, another more seasoned entrepreneur.
I have found most entrepreneurs or or or people that want to mentor entrepreneurs like there's or established leaders, they they want to be a mentor, right? um you know I don't think that you know a lot of times they like to be called advisor. It's a very you know it's a even I mean you know no there's often there's no money right involved but people like it because it's like how do I take everything that I've learned and all the mistakes that I've made and all the successes that I've had and really kind of share it and help grow and cultivate the next um the next generation. So, um, you know, I think I think it's just finding them and finding the, you know, and targeting those that, you know, would would get you what you need in terms of experiences and skill sets.
But, um, I feel like especially for entrepreneurs, there's been so much more focus on how do you impart the wisdom. Now, on the flip side, I would say that there's been a lot of and I don't I think it's more noise that oh, you know, like what got you to where you are doesn't relate to me. I'm different. You know, this is a different business. Um, I always think there's something transferable in terms of learnings um and the like. But, but I would say I I think there are people out there. I don't know if you've asked. I I think the first step is asking, you know, finding the right person. um based on like their their skills that might that can help you and then and then asking the question.
Well, that's wonderful. Well, wonderful advice. So, as we wrap for the day, do you have any final words of wisdom for our listeners? final words of so um I would say you know don't you know work to if you can work to get a sponsor or if you you know do it because I think it will definitely help you in your career if you have one don't forget to nurture the relationship and think for them as well not just what they can do for you and then finally you So if you're, you know, you know, influential leader in your organization, if you're not sponsoring someone, please think about it. Wonderful. It's important. Well, Patty, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much.
Well, we are excited you're with us today. So, we have your slides pulled up and the floor is all yours. Okay, great. And actually, can we skip to the next slide? Awesome. So, uh, as I said, I wanted to talk to everyone about sponsorship and what I think Harvard Business Review had called the sponsor effect. um at the you know if I go back I'm going to be dating myself to 20 2008 during the economic uh downturn um this was something that we started uh a study with Harvard Business Review um just around um you know the the topic and basically you know we came out of uh I think it was 2010 it was published and so um a little bit of what I want to cover here is why are we talking about this.
What is it? How do I get it? Um and and what is it like when it's working? So, if we can go to the next slide. Great. Thanks. So, um, as I mentioned, you know, I think I think if I look back in my career and I think about all the times where I've really had, you know, some really good growth or I've secured some really good roles, it's because I felt like someone was buying for me at the top. Um, and so, you know, back then I just thought I was lucky and, you know, I kind of earned it, but, you know, I didn't really have a formal uh uh concept for it. But I would say back in that 2008 time frame, and I'll this is maybe a little bit more of a case study for AMX at the time, but you know, we at the time um had inconsistent um in inconsistent gender mix, meaning we had really good representation um from, you know, diverse representation until you got to the very top, right?
So what might be 60 40 women you know like maybe banned 75 below changed 30 70 when you got to EVP and above and that wasn't great right like how do you you know why is it that people were getting stuck um the other thing is with the downturn um there was a lot of organizational changes that we made right ma we made to um flex to the to the market and and some of them frankly I think were you talked about, but that really kind of pushed it. And with those organizational changes, what you saw was senior leaders leaving, right? You know, things changed. It wasn't what they wanted. And I remember, you know, when one particular uh president at the time left, you know, we were in actually a woman's conference and like everybody like they said, 'Oh, this guy laughed.' And you know he went to another issuer and everybody looked at this woman who was his protege, right?
I mean he she was his star that he had been nurturing and and it was like okay now what happens, right? And so I think you know a lot of this you know it tends to um really kind of operate it. So um basically you know really the focus was how do you retain um people because you know some of these senior leaders you know the the talent that was left behind they were derailed there were departures on their own um and how do you really focus um on on the talent and retain them and make sure they're getting the advancement that they deserve. Um so if we can go to the next
slide. So basically, you know, one of the things that I think is a concept that came out of this study that, you know, and I know, you know, Joyce talked a lot about differences between men and women and how we think, right? We're way much more hard on ourselves and and and if you look at career progression, right? the idea as you're growing and think you know leveling up into the organization um you know your results you know your day-to-day results become less important not that it's not important but less important than to the the the the relationships that you're making and and the influence that influencing you're able to do. So, it's not so much your functional expertise, but it's like how do you lead?
How do you influence? And honestly, you have to cultivate those relationships. And it's it it was interesting because, you know, men naturally cultivate them to their advantage where women create more personal relationships. They want to be able to like you. you know, it's but but at the end of the day, I mean, relationships levels are how you get stuff done because it's very easy to sit in your silo uh and manage your P&L, but you really need to work across your peer set. Um, and so, you know, basically, you know, when I think about relationship capital, it's really the practice of seeking out powerful people, cultivating their favor, and cashing in those chips. Um, you know, when needed, and and honestly, that alone kind of demonstrates leadership uh potential as well.
So, so can we uh flip to the next slide? So, so you know, you know what is sponsorship, right? And I'm going to talk a little bit about what it is and then I'm going to kind of compare it to things like advocacy and mentoring. But basically, when I think about sponsorship there, you know, it's really critical relationships that will impact your career. And, you know, these are usually senior people or or senior compared to you at least a couple levels, right? It's not where you go to someone and say, 'Hey, I want you to sponsor me.' No, you need to earn it, right? You need to be able to show um to show your results and um really, you know, earn that as well as um it's different than mentoring and coaching, which I'll explain.
And for me, the thing that I think is really important because I I actually sponsor people within my organization. and I've done it in the last few that I've been in is really you need to nurture it, right? It can't be just a one-way ask all the time. I think there are things that you can do for your sponsor and and typically that's kind of what makes the relationship work is not only are they looking out for you and your best interest, but you're also able to help them. Um and so you know this idea of the sponsor effect is really what impact it has on your career and how important it is you know for growth and for retention and I'll go into a little bit more in the subsequent slides.
Um it really will um it it really will you'll see the difference and you'll you can see the difference when you see when people have sponsors um and and you know for for for many organizations I think having that person that's rooting for you will really help in retention. So if we can go to the next
slide. So you know what I would say is not everyone is a sponsor and you know you're not going to have five. I mean if you do wow I mean you should be lucky to have one because again you have to put a lot of time and effort into be uh into gaining one. So if I think about to think about what sponsorship is le let's start with you know mentoring right and having a mentor a mentor you know I'm sure many of you either have or have had mentors in your career it's you know usually it's time bound right it's for a specific purpose um you can request it they can be assigned right it can be a formal relationship it can be informal and those you know your mentors can be internal or external.
And really, they're there to help provide guidance, right, as you need it. And I know, you know, when I mentor uh people, I let them set the cadence on how often we meet and what we talk about. Um but and and so they usually have a purpose. You know, obviously advocates are um people that, you know, they're they're they're in your corner, right? They've seen the work you've done. Um you've earned it based on your performance. um and they'll they say good things about you, especially when you're not in the room, right? And so it's having that sort of support to say, you know, hey, you know, uh Patty's a great, you know, person. I know she could do this.
We should probably ask her, right? And and they very much um help you to kind of get what you want by having someone else that's that's validating um your worth. But but the last one um is the sponsor and the sponsor for me is the ultimate goal. I it is an alliance as I mentioned earlier. I think you have to really you know put into it you know to get out of it. Um you know sponsors help you to make connections. Um you know they will often challenge you especially when you're kind of thinking about all the reasons why you shouldn't take that role. you know, they're they're in your corner and they're in your corner even when you're not in the room.
And and that's really the idea is that you want your sponsor to be um to be talking for you and about you and and advocating for you when you're not in the room. And you know at one point someone said to me once that um you can mentor someone who's awful without you know risking your reputation where in you know sponsorship you're very much um that sponsor has credibility and they're using their credibility uh uh for on your behalf. So if we can uh go to the next
slide. So and I started to touch on this uh just previously you know a sponsor ideally you want them with inside your company or organization or group depending on you know what the sphere of influence need is. Um you want them to be above because again you want them talking on your behalf. Um you know when I think about it um in some organizations you know there are roles you know at very you know the higher up you go the you know roles don't always get posted right um and I know that's been changing over the years but let's say back to my example with organizational changes you know people might be saying to me oh what do you what role do you want next and I only know the role that exists today right and the structure that's there today but how do you have someone who's looking at where things are going and thinking, 'Wow, you know, you know, Jane would be great for that role.
I know we haven't fully vetted it yet, but you know, I think we should consider her.' Um, you know, I do think they have their own they have a credible voice, right? So, that's what, you know, you're you're relying on them for is their credibility. Um, they can help either make decisions or they can influence decisions, which is important. And like I was saying, they're at the talent table, right? They're talking about you uh from for from your performance or they're talking about you for next roles. Um and and really they're the ones that are helping to pull you pull you along. Um you know, and it's one of those relationships where you continue to look to grow it.
I know it says organically, but that doesn't imply that there's not an effort that goes into it. Um, and you know, basically they're putting their reputation, they're marrying it to your performance. Um, and they they'll take a risk on you. Um, and you know, that's one of the things with sponsors is it's not just that they're saying, 'Oh, Joe, you should hire Jane,' but it's like, 'I'm going to take, you know, a risk on Jane myself within my organization as well.' Um, and you know, they're there to help you. Um, and and I have to say that again, it's really important that you continue to think about ways that you can help them as well. Um, and so, you know, when I when I look back on my career, like I said, I think there have been times where, you know, I've had sponsors that either, you know,
advoc a performance perspective and and, you know, saying yes, you you know, she should have that role to thinking about me uh opportunities or even pushing me a little it because you know I'm the type of person that'll think about the 10 or 20% that of the job responsibilities that I haven't done before. Um and really I I think you know having that person to really push for you and and pull you along um is a great is a great um opportunity. So So if we can go to the next slide please.
So earning sponsorship right like I said earlier I mean you know a lot of us you know are lucky to have one sponsor um you know the other thing I said earlier is you know there's there's change right and I talk about that poor woman who you know her sponsor last right and went to another company and it's always good to have advocates like you're always trying to cultivate more sponsorship but you know Having one I and uh is a great thing and it really kind of begins with um you know really demonstrating and and delivering uh results, right? You know because you you're you know they're going to take a bet on you and you want to be the sure thing uh for them.
Um and so um you really you know need to be visible. Uh you want to show consistency in your results. Um and and really you want to where you have the opportunity is to demonstrate potential not just display performance and and you know really look to exceed expectations and you know with the mentor relationship that I had um I was really fortunate in that this person of course I saw the world of you know his values kind of aligned to mine but he taught me so much in terms of you know years ago like how to manage you know talent to their strengths versus trying to fix people. And and you know, I think there's a lot you can learn from them.
But I never stop to think about the things that I can do um for for him as well. And um you know, I talked about relationship capital uh previously. I think you know, you're always um trying to really you know, build that relationship and and make it two-way. Um, and the other thing that I mentioned earlier is that really that need for sponsorship really does intensify as you move up in the organization. Um, and and really, you know, having someone um uh buying for you uh is key um because you know, you're likely not going to be in the room yourself, right? Um, and often, like I said earlier, you may not even know of those opportunities because they're not, you know, uh, broadly known.
Um, and, um, you know, the the point being, you know, you can't count on one person for forever. Um, that kind of goes back into my thought of, you know, continuing to build advocacy with others. Um, and and you know, when I was talking about paying it back, I don't I don't think it's just with your sponsor, but I also think, you know, and and one of the reasons why I'm here today is I think, you know, as you, you know, move in your careers, it's going to be really important that you also uh pay it back and think about, okay, who who should I be sponsoring? But it's interesting like like make no doubt you know make no mistake the idea of sponsorship isn't that you have to sponsor everybody on your team.
You know it takes a lot of work and it and it really is you know the person maybe they're the high potential that you're aware of um that you really want to nurture and grow. Um, for me, like where I am right now at EY, um, Ernstston Young, um, there's been like a a person or two that, you know, I've gotten to know, I've only been there for three years now. I've gotten to know and I've said, 'Wow, you know, this person's really great.' You know, they could be doing so much more at the firm. like like and so then you know I start you know spending the time and and you know I've kind of you know they've earned it because they've given me some amazing results and that's why I'm like really surprised right like you're you know you're only this level wow you're not doing broader things you know people aren't talking about you um and really you know my my um that's when I kind of step in to say okay let me coach them let me suggest them for internal, you know, visible senior leader type projects.
And really, you know, my idea is to grow them and see them be successful. Am I their manager? No. Um, I'm just someone that, you know, wants to invest in them because I want to see them grow within the firm and not leave and get frustrated because for some reason others haven't, you know, um, haven't recognized that potential. And so um I'll go to the last
slide. So so this is kind of the model that you know I I when I think about sponsorship and and I can't wait to hopefully there's some good questions or even comments. I'm happy to take comments too. Um in terms of you know do people have sponsors? You know do they think you know that they need it? Do they have it? Um, you know, when I think about the sponsor relationship, obviously, you know, your sponsor believes in you. They're there to make, you know, to offer support. Um, they open doors. They'll even, you know, they'll make connections for you, right? like like one of my my sponsor my m like he brought me to a company where you know he I he took me from Pepsi Pepsi to to American Express and they're like two totally different companies as it relates to business models very much similar you know culture um but you know people looked at me like why are you here like you don't know anything about the credit card industry but you know I got in and um there were certain um meetings where, you know, I was in there and I was leveraging his credibility, but then it was up to me to then establish my own, right?
But that's that's what they do for you. Um, you know, I think they've also, you know, if you have the right relationship, they're also able to, um, really have those honest conversations with you, which I know sometimes, you know, are kind of difficult, but when you know that it's coming from a point of, you know, I think the world of view, here's a couple things that you can do even better. Um, that goes really well. Um, and they create opportunity. And then, you know, as I said, you know, sponsored talent, it's all about, you know, the results, you know, paying back and and doing things that you can for your sponsor, uh, making them look good, right?
Especially if they're putting their neck on the line for you. Um, a and really, you know, keeping them in the loop with your career and, you know, where things are going, I think, is important, too, because, you know, they're, you know, you want to make sure that they're up to date with everything going on so that when they're out talking about you, they've got the latest and greatest. And, you know, obviously, you know, getting a a request from your sponsor is something that you, you know, should try hard to um accommodate. Um, and so, you know, like if you look at, you know, there the the relationship itself, you know, you could read it. It's it's weighty.
It's generous. It's definitely a commitment. Um, and and there there is high expectations, I think, really from from both sides. So, so I'm I'm going to pause there and um I don't know um Ginger if there's any questions that you've gotten on the topic. Yes, we've received a lot of questions that have come in on the topic. So, I'm going to start with this one from Lauren. And Lauren says, 'Have you heard that women are over mentored and undersponsored?' And have you found that to be true?
What a great question. Um, you know, and if you notice, I didn't put stats in the deck because like I just I don't have, you know, I don't I didn't have time to validate latest and greatest. But typically, yes, typically women have been under sponsored um and and you know, I think it's easier to ask for a mentor relationship than it is to really go after a sponsor relationship. Um and and I do think though that, you know, you can't just blame um organizations. Um, I think sometimes I think you have to kind of seek out who do I, you know, out of the people that I'm working with, who are who is someone that could likely be a mentor, I mean, sorry, a sponsor for me.
You know, I I'm doing great things for there's a mutual benefit for them helping. sometimes they're just willing to step up and and and make that and make that um sort of relationship happen, you know, without, you know, without you, you know, really kind of coming at it and not necessarily asking, but but um you know, kind of for trying to formalize it on your end. But the other thing that I would say is you know a lot you know post that post the the research that was done and you know AMX wasn't the only company that invested in it and participated in it was um a conscious um a conscious move by companies to try to formalize it and to kind of really say you know here are these especially high potential women and others, right?
Here are these high potential leaders that, you know, who is their sponsor? Who's kind of bringing them along? Um, and they're, you know, it was for for AMX is called Women at the Women in the Pipeline, Women at the Top. And so, you know, it was very clear who their sponsors were, uh, because it was semiformmal.
Wonderful. Thank you so much for that. So, our next question comes from Amber. And Amber asks, 'Are there any personality issues that someone should look for to make sure that you're meshing with a mentor?' With with a mentor. Yes. Yep. Okay. Um, you know, I actually think that's a great question because to me, I I think a mentor, you know, getting a mentor and you can have multiples, right? You know, and some people do, right? You might have a mentor around functional like help that you need you know around your functional expertise and then you might have a mentor around leadership right um I think it's really for me and maybe because I'm a woman right stereotypical I think it's important that we have similar values right I don't know personalitywise sometimes I feel like I can learn from other personalities but I feel like what's most important to me is the values that you have but but honestly I I kind of start with the company right does the company have the right values and then you know does you know does my mentor have have the right values and and um so so yeah I think you know if I kind of extrapolate I think yeah personality um is important and it's funny because at um EY we have a couple of different formal mentor programs that I'm part of and they do a a match up front based on um like sort of like your application of what you're looking for and like your philosophy on things, but I mean they don't always, you know, they're not always a perfect match.
And you know, you should never have to force it. Um, so I I do think if you know if you've got a mentor that maybe isn't you know the the you know the right person um if you're not comfortable right because maybe per personalitywise it might be more cultural or it might just be you're not as comfortable then I mean you're you're you're totally fine to to to find another one. That's great. Well, this is going to be our last question of the afternoon and then we're going to ask you for some final thoughts. And this question comes from Paulina. And Paulina asks, 'For those of us who are entrepreneurs, do you have any specific recommendations for finding a mentor?' So, so actually um especially for entrepreneurs um and I don't know how much you you know how active you are in LinkedIn or different you know conference forums or or you know associations but I really and and maybe I've got too much of a financial services lens I apologize but um you know typically there are people that have, you know, come through the ranks either come through the ranks in a corporate environment that might apply to to the business in or the topic that you're an entrepreneur or sometimes it it'll just be, you know, another more seasoned entrepreneur.
I have found most entrepreneurs or or or people that want to mentor entrepreneurs like there's or established leaders, they they want to be a mentor, right? um you know I don't think that you know a lot of times they like to be called advisor. It's a very you know it's a even I mean you know no there's often there's no money right involved but people like it because it's like how do I take everything that I've learned and all the mistakes that I've made and all the successes that I've had and really kind of share it and help grow and cultivate the next um the next generation. So, um, you know, I think I think it's just finding them and finding the, you know, and targeting those that, you know, would would get you what you need in terms of experiences and skill sets.
But, um, I feel like especially for entrepreneurs, there's been so much more focus on how do you impart the wisdom. Now, on the flip side, I would say that there's been a lot of and I don't I think it's more noise that oh, you know, like what got you to where you are doesn't relate to me. I'm different. You know, this is a different business. Um, I always think there's something transferable in terms of learnings um and the like. But, but I would say I I think there are people out there. I don't know if you've asked. I I think the first step is asking, you know, finding the right person. um based on like their their skills that might that can help you and then and then asking the question.
Well, that's wonderful. Well, wonderful advice. So, as we wrap for the day, do you have any final words of wisdom for our listeners? final words of so um I would say you know don't you know work to if you can work to get a sponsor or if you you know do it because I think it will definitely help you in your career if you have one don't forget to nurture the relationship and think for them as well not just what they can do for you and then finally you So if you're, you know, you know, influential leader in your organization, if you're not sponsoring someone, please think about it. Wonderful. It's important. Well, Patty, thank you so much for being with us this afternoon.
Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you so much.